posted 06/08/09 12:02 AM | updated 06/10/09 06:10 PM

Bus drivers say Metro's new smart card isn't so smart

(Photo by Jim Gupta-Carlson)

It’s supposed to make “public transportation fast, easy and seamless” – one fare card, a smart card nicknamed ORCA, that can be used for the ferries, Sound Transit, Metro or several other transit agencies.

But bus drivers predict they’ll cause delays and problems collecting fares.

And maybe even accidents.

The problem, say bus drivers such as Brian Sherlock and Joshua Laff, both leaders with the union that represents the drivers, is that the system is too cumbersome to use.

Take a bus that goes from Aurora Village to downtown, Laff says. The route crosses two zones, and the ride has a higher fare than a single-zone trip. The smart card reader is set to charge riders for a two-zone trip, says Laff, a senior shop steward in Metro’s norh base.

But if riders are taking a short trip, they’re charged for only one zone.

 

Right now, the system is simple. Passengers taking a short trip pay the smaller fare when they get on, and bus drivers try to notice if they go farther.

But under the new system, the bus driver has to manually reset the smart card reader to deduct the correct amount from the prepaid card.

Laff says either of a couple of things will happen.

Even if the passenger is savvy enough to ask to be charged the $2 peak fare for one zone trip instead of the $2.50 for a two-zone one, Laff says there could be delays while the reader is switched, while the line of rush-hour passengers trying to get on has to wait.

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Or more likely, he says, the passenger won’t know to ask. The person will notice he or she is being charged more and stop to argue.

 

While everybody waits, he says, the driver will have to cancel the previous transaction, reset the reader and run the card again.

“It’s going to cause delays,” agreed Sherlock, a member of the Amalgamated Transit Workers Union, Local 587’s executive board.

Or, Laff said, passengers won’t notice the reader is taking more out of their prepaid card and they’ll overpay.

Eventually, Laff wrote in a recent edition of the union’s newsletter, “Passengers and drivers are not going to put up with the problems caused by setting the fare default for ‘two-zone.’ To avoid those problems and minimize complaints, drivers will override the default fare during peak service, setting it to ‘one-zone’ at all times.”

When that happens, he wrote, management “could be forced to accept ORCA is not doing what they hoped.” But he doubts the system will be scrapped. “Not only could that be too politically embarrassing to allow; I don’t think they’ll give up so easily,” he wrote. Instead, he wrote that management will try to “force drivers, probably through threat of discipline, into setting the fare default properly.”

But then, the underlying problem of people not being charged the correct fare will remain, he wrote. “The public will not be happy. They’ll blame the drivers,” he said, leading to more complaints against drivers.

 

(Photo by Jim Gupta-Carlson)

To Sherlock, the “God-forsaken system” just adds another thing for drivers to worry about while they’re trying to drive safely. Now, drivers have to notice when people need the wheelchair lift, that the seats are secured, make sure people who’ve gotten on are safely on board before pulling out, check for pedestrians easily hidden behind obstacles. Now they have to fiddle with new machine to make sure they’re charging the right amount. While they’re driving, they have to look out for hazards. Time schedules are printed on pieces of paper, which drivers have to keep consulting to make sure they’re not early. Now they have to remember to change the fare the readers charge as they pass from one zone to another.

 

Though the Amalgamated Transit Workers Union has not taken an official position and president Lance Norton did not return phone calls, Sherlock and Laff said the concerns are widespread among Metro’s drivers.

Metro spokeswoman Rochelle Ogershok said the agency hasn’t noticed delays associated with the new system since the smart cards went on sale April 20. But, she said: “It is possible we may experience some temporary sporadic delays in the coming weeks as more customers switch to the ORCA card. We anticipate these problems will likely be short term and mainly involve suburban trips taken during peak periods as drivers and customers become more familiar with the cards.”

She said, “It is  true  there will be more interaction with drivers. That means operators occasionally need to reset readers to reflect the correct fare based on number of zones traveled or transactions voided when an incorrect fare has been registered.

“So, given the flexibility of this system, we anticipate there will be a learning curve for both operators and customers until everyone becomes accustomed to using the new card,” she said.

However, Ogershok said a second phase should take care of the problem. Metro is adding GPS technology to automatically reset how much the reader collects as it moves from one zone to another. Installation is supposed to begin next year and be finished in 2011.

Sherlock thinks the whole thing should be scrapped, but it won’t. But he said it took years to get all the agencies involved. “There’s an inertia among all the agencies,” he said.

(Photo by Jim Gupta-Carlson)

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ORCA "Smart" Card
The obvious solution: don't use an ORCA card. I naturally presumed that the card would have flaws and never had any intention of using it. My theories are confirmed with this story.
Comment by Will Skubi
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
drivers need to keep their position current
If the drivers do their job and keep the current position on the route correctly on their panels that sit in front of them, the ORCA card pay stations will work correctly. I ride the bus every day, and have seen about half the readers are either set to "Ride Free Area" even though we're on the Eastside by now (coming from downtown) or even offline completely. This is just drivers being lazy and not doing their job. So Metro will lose money because of the drivers not updating their panels as they should.
Comment by Dave
8 months ago
( --1 votes)
Seniors and ORCA
When I first learned about the card, I emailed my question - how will seniors use the card and what happens to transfers? In the reply, I was assured that the card would know I was old - and charge accordingly. And the fare I paid would be good for 2 hours. Thus I would not need a paper transfer.

After reading this, I'm going to wait and see how the card works before getting one. I'm willing to pay what I should, but I don't want to overpay or have the hassle of causing a scene to get it right.
Comment by m-t-e
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Orca
I've seen many people attempt to use the Orca card on buses and it's never worked. Swipe, swipe, nada. I will not be buying an Orca card and will stick to a Metro pass.
Comment by moralee
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Use two reader machines
One of many solutions would be to use two reader machines on each bus, one for each zone. If clearly labeled, riders would simply use one machine or the other.

I know nothing about these machines but it may even be possible to use one machine with two card readers.

If I deployed something with kinks like this where I work, my employment status would be in question.
Comment by Ben McDonald
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Use two reader machines
One of many solutions would be to use two reader machines on each bus, one for each zone. If clearly labeled, riders would simply use one machine or the other.

I know nothing about these machines but it may even be possible to use one machine with two card readers.

If I deployed something with kinks like this where I work, my employment status would be in question.
Comment by Ben McDonald
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Anyone heard of User Acceptance Testing?
Wow, it sounds like the designers of this system aren't familiar with the concept of user acceptance testing. This is where you test a new system with THE CUSTOMERS WHO WILL ACTUALLY USE IT. Obviously, drivers were not consulted, or the ORCA team picked the wrong set of drivers to do their testing.

I can't believe they spent years designing something that requires so much manual input from the drivers.
Comment by Phil
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Orca card
I was talked into buying an Orca card. I was told that they will be replacing the regular bus pass in the near future, I so I went ahead and bought one. It almost NEVER works on the bus, the drivers seem frustrated since there is nothing they can really do without holding up the line. I just tap it on the keypad and if it doesn't work, I keep going. I already paid my monthly fee, what else am I suppossed to do? Its kinda irritating.
Comment by Kat
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
RE: Orca card
Why be irritated, Kat? It's not your job to make it work. Unless they're already charging for the ORCA card, you didn't have to pay anything for it, either.

I use an RFID card at work for entry, this card is no different. You have to give it a slightly slower pass for it to read. If it doesn't read it, I tell the driver I have a monthly pass and then I get off the bus. I paid for my pass, let Metro sort it out.
Comment by Deb A
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Good grief...it's new
I have an ORCA card, and love it. Yes, the system hasn't always worked perfect - but so far, the errors have been to my benefit. One was a reader that didn't work at all (free ride, thank you), and twice it was still on "Free Ride Zone" even out of the area.

I ride regularly, but not enough to justify a pass purchase. So my choices were: cash, where I had to remember to keep one dollar bills and/or a pocketful of quarters, or a ticketbook, which often led me to pay more because I didn't always have the correct combination of tickets for the particular time. Face it, ORCA isn't going away (and the passes are), but bus drivers aren't going to kick you off for trying to pay. The benefits are well worth it.
Comment by Jeff
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Unions aren't happy if they don't have something to carp about....
Part of the issue is the amalgam of fare structures that the card had to be built to deal with since we have such a patchwork of agencies up here, unlike Portland or Chicago. If they can figure out how to get it to work smoothly the card would be an incredible advance. I got one when they first came out, but I don't ride the bus every day -- I use it so I don't have to worry about cash when I do take the bus/train, and I have not had any problems so far. Even when a reader is not working on a bus or at a station, the system has seemed to "figure" it out the next time I used it....
Comment by Good Grief
8 months ago
( --1 votes)
Ferry workers, Bus drivers and such
I live and work on Bainbridge. I was 'sold' the bill of goods on our Wave 2 Go program. However, the only place you can use it is coming from Seattle...walk on only. I still have to hand it to them, they swipe it (as the swipers that were installed...at a major expense...don't seem to function) and then give me my card back, with a receipt.... This is why I buy the cards? So I can get more paper? It seems to me that the ferry workers are being protected. Does the new system mean fewer people working booths? Possibly. Does it mean having one lane, just one lane that people who buy these cards can utilize? Apparently not.
My spidey senses tell me the scanners work, but the ferry workers don't use them as they know it would eventually lead to some job loss.
Nobody likes change, but we all have to deal with it. I have an Orca card...it is not the most convenient thing...but the agencies that it supports seem to hate it, want nothing to do with it and do nothing but talk poorly about it. Interesting.
Push the button, bus drivers...deal with it. Union officials, stop 'protecting' the few and start looking out after the many. Public transportation is important. We need it, and it needs to run smoothly. Deal with transition folks, you are not the only ones!
Comment by PJ
8 months ago
( --1 votes)
RE: Ferry workers, Bus drivers and such
Not sure how the ORCA system would result in job loss as the ORCA system doesn't drive the bus. Care to expand on that one?
Comment by Jeff Welch
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Know how every other city int he world does this?
1. Scrap the zones, and charge everyone the same amount. Shorter rides cost more per mile, longer rides a bit less. Less egalitarian, but less work for the drivers.

2. Keep the zones, and have passengers swipe the card getting on and getting off the bus, with a reader at each door. That way the system knows how far you have traveled, and charges you accordingly. If you forget to swipe off, then you are charged the full fare.

These are not unique problems, why does Seattle always want to reinvent the wheel?
Comment by tom
8 months ago
( +1 votes)
card purchasers are the only ones paying 2-zone fares
Cash payers almost never pay the extra zone fare. They look at you funny if you ask for it. Buyers of 2-zone passes, and the ORCA card buyers are the only ones paying it, through the pass purchase price.

And why should the default setting ever be 2 zones? The bus is always only in one zone, and anyone getting on or off could very well be riding only in that one zone. (except for the pure commuter routes, like from the East Side to downtown during rush hour)
Comment by waterSports233
8 months ago
( --1 votes)
Zones don't work.
I say scrap the zone system. It doesn't work. For example, if I am going from White Center to West Seattle, maybe a half mile or a mile trip, I get charged extra, two zones, because I cross a man-made line. But, if I go from Aurora Village to Downtown, maybe 8 miles, I only get charged one zone. This makes no sense. The system is broken, so scrap the zone system. If you need to make up the revenue difference, raise fares for everybody and make it a flat rate. This makes MUCH more sense than zones.
Comment by ac
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
orca
what we need is one transit system, not so dam many. which is one reason the orca card has a hard time reading. every transit has there on set of rules. to get these transit people talking to each other is hard as it is. the orca is a good system but if the parties that be (the transit system) would just work together or the so call transit was one system it wouldn't be so bad. plus when you have a county (king county, thanks ron)running things. what do you expect....
Comment by JEROME D MARABLE
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Too late now
Shouldn't the bus drivers have brought this up before now? They've been testing the system for the last three years, surely the drivers had plenty of time to voice their opinion before the system was launched. I guess the bus drivers union knew they'd get more press if they waited to whine after the system was in place. Is it really that hard to use? We're supposed to be the most educated region in the country, but a 'smart' card has out-smarted us.
Comment by Zed
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
RE: Too late now
Take a look at union newsletters for the past several years. You can view them (all the way back to the 1940s) at http://www.atu587.com/news-newsletters.html .

The issue has come up repeatedly - and not all driver feedback has been negative.
Comment by Jeff Welch
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Link it with GPS
The buses already have GPS transponders on them - seems like with a couple of wires and some basic programming the ORCA readers could be set up to automatically charge the right amount based upon where the bus is. When the bus leaves a particular fare zone for another, it can adjust the price charged accordingly.
Comment by RationalThought
8 months ago
( --1 votes)
RE: Link it with GPS
Metro operated buses (including the Sound Transit routes) do NOT have GPS receivers at this time. They have another system called AVL (automatic vehicle location) which is not very precise and is prone to problems and can not be tied into the DDU without significant expense (adding GPS is way cheaper). CT operated buses (including Sound Transit routes) DO have GPS installed. The drivers I know have made their comments to management since the testing started years ago. They were mostly ignored as installing and operating this very expensive system was a priority for King County leaders (bye bye Ron). A single fare would simplify things for almost everyone and would not have much of an impact on revenue.
Comment by ziphead
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
I love the Orca card
The ORCA card works great for me. I can refill the card online, saving me a trip to the Metro office. And it's much smaller and easier to carry around than the ticket books.
Comment by Duder
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Seems to be a bit of a rough shakedown so far
I ordered an ORCA card online when they were first made available, then tried to put $20 on it when I received it. Well, the amount displayed on the web site as "pending", the card shows "empty" when swiped, (yes, I tried) and after a series of email exchanges, I was told I'll have to go to one of their ticket offices and get a replacement. Nice--I work in Bellevue, and the only two places I can get this taken care of are in downtown Seattle, open during weekday business hours.

I'm sure glad I didn't try to put in $100.
Comment by Art Marriott
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
ugh.
I've been using an orca card for a number of weeks now. I use it as a debit card. It's way faster than trying to find the right amount of change, and I have somehow avoided any of the warned limb amputations or other disasters.

Non issue.. move along folks, nothing to see here.
Comment by mark
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Never heard of modern technology?
Sheesh? GPS would be used to solve many of the issues - allowing the fare box to automatically change what is charged based on time of day and location.

The fare has to be based on information the rider tells the driver - to determine the rate charged - or the box needs to have buttons the riders press.

I'm amazed that such a simple task as charging public transit passengers for fares, is so difficult to get right here, when its been done successfully in other parts of the world for decades.
Comment by Thomas
8 months ago
( +1 votes)
RE: Never heard of modern technology?
GPS is supposedly on the way, and its absence is the big barrier to having to have drivers to data input as well as everything else. I'm hearing 1-2 years away.
Comment by Jeff Welch
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
ORCA Smart Card
Wow, a whole 10 seconds to change a screen. I have seen drivers doing it many times, when they are not involved in conversations with passengers that is :) Come on guys, grow up.
Comment by Bus Traveler
8 months ago
( --1 votes)
Non-issue
First, to start an article by saying that the new system may cause accidents is just sensationalism. Nothing in the story supports such a statement.

Second, this issue has nothing to do with technology. Drivers have always had to collect the correct amount and monitor whether passengers paid the right amount based on their trip. If the system is buggy or not user-friendly it can be fixed in any number of ways (including GPS or simplifying the zone structure).

What a stupid article.
Comment by Kelly
8 months ago
( --1 votes)
Don't use the card
If you want your money's worth, don't use the card. Getting refunds for overcharged trips will be a nightmare.

No excuse for rolling out this system with so many glitches. Waste of time, resources and money.
Comment by crunchy
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Useless customer service
The first time I used my Orca card, the driver had set the system incorrectly. It charged me a peak fare at noon. I contacted Orca's customer service through my online account and asked them to refund the 25 cents (from my transaction history, it's obvious there should not be a peak fare at noon). No responde after a week. Wrote a second time. I was told I would have to visit Metro's downtown offices for my quarter. I wrote back and said they should try a bit harder here. Orca said they just have a "virtual call center" online and that no one could do anything. I asked to have a supervisor contact me. No reply. THIS CARD AS IT IS SET UP IS A COMPLETE FAILURE.
Comment by d
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Isn't it only a month old?
New multi-agency system and people are already all twisted over how its not working? Good greif, it hasn't been out for even a month. Of course there are going to be problems. There were plenty during the testing phase and now there are some new ones during real world application. Remember, ORCA isn't offically rolled out. Its still in testing and won't be rolled out until Link opens. Give it time and it'll be worked out. This problem would be easily solved by reprogramming one button where a simple press would allow drivers to go between one and two zone fairs.

ORCA is cooler, easier, and a lot faster than cash or swippable FlexPasses. And its the only regional card thats...regional.
Comment by SD70MACMAN
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Lovin the ORCA card.
I have been using the ORCA card for a couple weeks now. I do not see the problems being as dire as predicted in the article. Are there bugs in the system that need to be worked out? yes, of course there are and for a system as new as this I was expecting that (for example, readers that dont read the card properly as has happened to me on two seperate occasions on the metro 253 route, all other routes (metro, CT, and ST) I have used it on work just fine). Do I think the system will cause significant slowdowns as predicted in the article? no, simply put, as drivers become more proficient with the system and as it gets linked with GPS I think many of the wrong fare problems will become things of the past. As someone who has been riding the bus for 10+ years, I think the ORCA card system is very cool and this article is a waste of server hard drive space.
Comment by Matthew
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
ORCA CARD
Having another card reader by back door and a speaker box installed near step well would allow patrons to exit bus after communication with driver and swiping card without having to go to the front.
Comment by WALT LEAVER
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Now, drivers have to notice when people need the wheelchair lift
Seriously?

My daughter is disabled and uses a wheelchair, last year on the 187 route her driver stated "You know they have buses for people like you".

Last I checked he was right, they're called metro buses and they have wheelchair lifts.

Half the time they don't even bother looking for passes if the bus is busy, while I appreciate that it's already a problem of not charging so how will this make it worse.
Comment by Nozama
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
RE: Now, drivers have to notice when people need the wheelchair lift
""You know they have buses for people like you".

A reprehensible comment - I hope you reported it to Metro. That goes beyond insensitive and into the realm of disciplinary level discrimination.

I worked for 20 years in the nonprofit sector with people with disabilities before becoming a Metro driver. It disturbs me to hear that you had this unfortunate experience. While I'm sure it's uncommon - it should be uncommon to the point of "never".

Don't let this sort of thing go without letting someone at Metro know about it, or the offending driver (and it goes beyond offensive what was said) will visit their ignorance upon someone else.
Comment by Jeff Welch
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Smart
Sherlock is a big baby he cry's about everything. I am a mechanic for metro and have had to deal with him. You give him an inch he wants 10 miles. Some people just don't like change. The drivers will get use to it. I am sure baby bri will then cry about something else.
Comment by ptmechanic
8 months ago
( +1 votes)
ORCA isn't the problem
I’d argue that this isn’t a problem with ORCA but with the fare structure. Just because ORCA can accommodate complex multi-zone, peak vs. off-peak pricing, distance based fares, etc. doesn’t mean that they should be used.

While I doubt it will cause accidents, the fare structure is needlessly complex for passengers, not to mention anyone visiting from areas with simple fare structures.

Also from the above:

"Right now, the system is simple. Passengers taking a short trip pay the smaller fare when they get on, and bus drivers try to notice if they go farther."

That isn't simple, it's complex compared to bus systems all over the world that have a simple fare structure and standardized boarding process. The driver shouldn't have to be concerned with passengers after they pay (or present proof of payment) unless they're causing a disturbance / safety problem.

This is just one more thing for drivers to juggle in addition to which fare sign to use, express vs. local, etc but a simple fare structure would make the driver's job that much easier. At least ORCA will be much better than the existing passes, not to mention cash.
Comment by Rob
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Bus drivers say Metro's new smart card isn't so smart
oh-oh
Comment by Russ Campbell
8 months ago
( --1 votes)
Fare Disputes
One conern I have is that fare disputes should be settled at the administrative level (including when it's agreed that an incorrect fare was charged). The rider should be able to contact Metro or ORCA and have the balance refunded.
Comment by John Slyfield
8 months ago
( --1 votes)
Drivers should just drive
Why should the driver be worried about this issue. Who cares. It'ss the cardolders problem. Wave them thru and keep on drivin.
Comment by James
8 months ago
( --1 votes)
Haven't had a problem with the card - I love it
I use an ORCA card and have NO problems at all with it. So people have to wait a bit - if you don't like it, then don't take the bus. It's just one of the things people need to deal with when taking public transit. It isn't all about YOU.

As for those of you that won't get one....from what I understand, by the end of the year you won't have a choice as all other passes will be phased out. They have already stopped selling yearly passes.
Comment by Deb A
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
scan it twice
If they insist on keeping the current fare structure (which is overly complex), they could set it up so that people scan the card twice: Once when they get on and once when they get off. They'd probably have to hook it up to some sort of GPS, or the driver could just punch a big red button when they enter a new zone, I guess. The system then calculates the correct fare based on time and location of entry and exit and deducts that amount from the card.
Comment by bearseatbeats
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
post-glob "journalism"?
What a ridiculous story. This was a union press release, based on self-serving anxieties about driver complaints. Did the vaunted "journalists" at the new Post Globe even bother to interview, um, i don't know, maybe some PASSENGERS?
Comment by whatever
8 months ago
( --1 votes)
Orca card
Yes, I do use my Orca card. Yes, I do know its NEW. Yes, I figure there will be kinks to work out with something new like this card, which will be used for all community transit. I was simply stating earlier that is was realy not working in most buses, I use on a daily basis. I would assume that should be something that Metro should pay close attention too, if they want the allocate any funds in the future with use of the Orca card. Most metro drivers are pretty cool about it.
I will give the Metro points for being able to register them the Orca card. If you lose your card, you can replace it for $5 (I beleive) and if you have a lot of money or a full month of bus fare on that Orca card, that small replacement fee is worth it!
Comment by Kat
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Really? I see this differently
I'm sorry - while I do truly feel for the drivers that are abused and have to deal with difficult situations, for the most part what I see in Metro's workforce is overpaid louts that feel entitled to high pay with little responsibility. I wish I had their pay, I also wish I had their insane benefits. I also wish that the truly good drivers weren't so heavily soiled by the likes of the drivers featured in this story. This would also be the group of drivers that went to the media in 2007 predicting that the low mirrors on buses in the tunnel and the narrow clearance between platform and bus would cause untold harm to passengers. Guess what guys - do your JOB as trained, accept your inflated pay, and everything but everything will be OK.
Comment by garbo
8 months ago
( --1 votes)
RE: Really? I see this differently
FYI, I'm a part-time driver - like almost 2/3rds of the drivers out there - and my take-home pay is about $1000.00 per month.

Overpaid with "no responsibility"?

Are you kidding? I suggest you take a look at what drivers actually make and what their level of responsibility is. Those are living, breathing human beings that board my bus each day, and a number of similarly animated entities driving, walking, riding bikes etc. as I maneuver a 30 ton, slow accellerating, poor-visiblity monstrosity through rush-hour traffic so you can get to work early enough to grab a latte at Starbucks.

I carry more "louts" on my bus than I've ever seen in Metro uniforms, many who sit in ivory towers (or in front of ivory-colored laptops) looking down their noses at folks to drive busses.

If I could make it happen - I'd make YOU a bus driver for a month, just so you could see how ignorant and insensitive your comments are.
Comment by Jeff Welch
8 months ago
( +1 votes)
Ridiculous
These cards have been used all over the world for several years...many in cities with fare structures far more complicated than Metro's. Perth has NINE zones (and buses, trains, ferries). Singapore has some sort of insanely complicated distance-based bus fare that seems to change every 500 meters. London has at least six zones. I wouldn't even consider trying to figure out the cash fares in most of these places--even as a visitor I have always purchased the local version of the ORCA simply to avoid these hassles. (The better systems sell a 3-, 5- or 7-day tourist pass that works in the identical fashion; are you listening, Metro/Sound Transit?) Some of these cards even act as cash cards at various stores. You can still pay in cash on several of these systems, but the cash fares are so much higher that it greatly encourages use of the cards.

On most if not all of these systems, you swipe at the front of the bus when you board and at the back when you leave. Can't be too hard, right? Cuts down on the wait to board and to disembark both. But Metro didn't want to pay for rear door readers (let alone the GPS that would make all of this work well). I have never--not once--had a problem in any of these cities with their "ORCA" cards. Why are we acting like this has never been done before and we can't figure out how to make it work? The whining from these people is simply ludicrous.
Comment by roadbear
8 months ago
( --1 votes)
RE: Ridiculous
You seem to blame Metro for not spending money on GPS, additional card readers, etc.

You do realize that King County Metro is part of County government, and receives it's funding from the taxpayers, right?

Can you think of some difference between the level of taxation and investment in public transportation infrastructure in those countries you mentioned vs. our own King County?

I agree - it CAN work, and work well with proper investment. But as long as we have this culture of folks who want everything delivered to the public but don't want to allocate public dollars to do it (durn GUBBERMINT! SOCIALISTS! etc.), then it ain't gonna happen or at the very least you'll certainly not see a system as seamless as you'll get in Perth.

They have better beaches, too.
Comment by Jeff Welch
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
ORCA Card
Sounds like a typical case of "let's just complain about it because it's something new and different". The card is intended primarily to replace cash as a fare currency. Anything that replaces cash is better for the driver, the patron and everyone concerned. Card processing systems can be set up for tap on tap off; where a rider taps on and gets charged the higher zone 2 fare but if he/she taps off at a zone 1 stop and does not go into zone 2 the card is automatically adjusted to charge the lower zone 1 fare. In this case the driver doesn't need to do a thing!

Smart Cards are better than any fare medium out there and like anything new, thery will take some getting used to at the onset and will be met with resistance by those who will, by their nature, resist anything that's new.
Comment by Dan Connelly
8 months ago
( --1 votes)
Slide the card twice
Why don't they just have the customer slide the card once when they get on, and once when they get off. The computer can figure out how far they have gone and charge the customer the right fee. Or is that too simple of a solution.
Comment by Here is an idea
8 months ago
( --1 votes)
RE: Slide the card twice
Because the card reader doesn't *know* how far you've travelled. The system has no GPS, and doesn't track mileage or location beyond the time points (or "trips") pre-entered into the system and updated at each return to base.

We also have a zone system and a ride-free area that mean that in some places you pay as you ENTER the bus, and in some places you pay as you LEAVE. With the current zone/fare system tapping twice would just charge you twice for the same ride. The system would just assume that you were either paying as you board or left the bus - twice.

So your solution isn't as simple as all that - it would mean basically eliminating zones and/or the Ride Free Area, investing in GPS for all busses and incorporating realtime GPS data into all busses and the ORCA system itself.

Can be done, certainly. All it takes is money.

Got some?
Comment by Jeff Welch
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
RE: Slide the card twice
You don't always get on (or off) via the same door. ST solves the issue by having readers in each station, I believe - or at each door of each train car. I haven't taken Sounder since the system was installed.

In any event, Metro has a lot more stops and a lot more vehicles, so that approach would cost...a lot more.

The reality is, most Metro drivers don't make a big deal out of folks not paying the correct fare anyway, nor do I believe they should. Drivers have enough to worry about without trying to be fare police.

I imagine once they finally get GPS on the Metro fleet much of this will be far, far simpler.
Comment by John
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Just an addendum to my comments from yesterday
The Washington, DC metro train system already does what "bearseatbeats" and "Here's an Idea" suggest.
Comment by Matthew
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Good Idea - One Bug
Unformity in fare structure is something that a lot of people (except the number crunchers I guess) support, and hopefully will come eventually. There is still some lingering logic behind the idea that the longer one travels, the more one should pay, so that one is a bit harder to get around.

One big wrench in the works behind what you describe though is the downtown Ride Free area - which would have to be scrapped as well. Many support this idea, but downtown workers, employers and businesses are against it for what should be obvious reasons.
Comment by Jeff Welch
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
DSTT Bus vs LRT
One thing Portland's transit agency plans to do that is different from Seattle is the fareless system. Portland's transit mall, like Seattle's DSTT, will accommodate light rail and buses beginning this September. And, the economy is forcing the transit agency Tri-met to reduce the scale of fareless square.

Tri-met plans to leave LRT fareless, and buses no longer fareless on the Transit Mall, which makes sense. In the DSTT, Seattle plans to leave buses fareless and charge for riding light rail, which does not make sense.

Riding light rail on Seattle's DSTT and Portland's Transit Mall should be encouraged, not discouraged. It's simpler and quicker to board light rail than a bus. Making buses free in the DSTT means more people will board them, thus increasing the time buses idle at the stop and cause delays to both bus and light rail.

Why have Seattle planners chosen to arrange the system the exact opposite way from Portland? I'll venture the guess that it has to do with the cost of fare checkers. More buses -- more fare checkers. Fewer light rail trains -- fewer fare checkers.

Oxymoron translation: It costs less to screw up the system. On the other hand, sometimes screwing up the system is more expensive, such as with electronic ticket machines. Either way, the goal appears to be to screw up the system. Terrible transit systems spell profit for car-related business interests who hold prominent positions on Seattle's Chamber of Commerce.
Comment by Wells
8 months ago
( 0 votes)
Don't assume the driver is stupid
OK, maybe the ORCA card wasn't 100% ready to launch, but the deadline had been pushed out several times. Employees from all agencies had been in involved in the testing as riders, so the agencies knew what most of the problems were going to be. Now, many people says changing the box is too difficult for the drivers, but I'm here to say they're not stupid. Many of the drivers started off driving part-time while students at various universities, but the pay was too good to move on and the benefits were decent, so they stayed on as full-time drivers after college. So, most of the drivers are highly educated and perhaps there's some plain old laziness about setting the fare boxes and changing them when they cross zones. If you can operate a computer, or a Wii, or pair an earpiece to a cell phone, you can handle the ORCA card. Technology isn't always perfect, but we move forward.
Comment by Cid
7 months ago
( 0 votes)
ORCA card = free rides
I lived in DC before moving to Seattle, and DC has a similar smart card technology on their buses and on the metro. So, when the ORCA card came out, I bought one, since I've used similar technology before. Well, the last 4 out of 5 times I rode the bus, the reader didn't work. Which meant that I got free bus rides, as the drivers were all kind enough to wave me through, seeing as how I was making a good-faith effort to pay for my fare. The reader wasn't set to a free zone or anything, they just wouldn't read the card for some reason.

The moral of the story: for free bus rides, buy an ORCA card...
Comment by Emily
7 months ago
( 0 votes)
No All-Day Pass?!
As I understand it, you cannot use your ORCA card to purchase a $4 all-day pass on Metro buses for the weekends or holidays. Really?! What would be so hard about programming the system to simply never deduct more than $4 (max. limit) from your account on a Saturday when boarding Metro buses?

Ideally (maybe someday) fares would be based on a time &/or distance function, so each boarding passenger initiated his own unique, individual "zone". Obvious problems with that however.

Perhaps the Downtown Ride Free Zone could have dedicated "special" buses that never left the zone, but just constantly circled around inside. All other buses would charge as usual, when you got on. Again, obvious problems, but it's a thought.

Finally, I love the scrolling time/date displays, visible to everyone, as seen on Pierce Transit & Sound Transit buses. Keeps everyone on their toes & on the same page. Really wish Metro would install them!
Comment by Brad
7 months ago
( 0 votes)
ORCA card
(1) After the first time I was charged a two zone fare instead of a one zone fare, I went back to look at the ORCA card website. Sure enough, there was a new option to set my default charge to a single zone charge, regardless of what the ORCA card reader says. Since I rarely do a two zone Metro trip, this did the trick, i.e., it actually works. It just means that if I do take a two zone peak hour trip, I'll need to ask for an override or add extra fare.

(2) GPS will help, but the real solution is to have ORCA card readers at all doors and require that riders touch their cards when both entering and leaving. Then zones would be computed automatically. More generally, Metro go could to a distance based fare system like Sound Transit's new Link light rail. This would encourage more people to take the bus for short trips to local destinations. I already do this, since Rainier Avenue has such good service with the bus 7.

(3) Brian: Don't get too worked up over this. Just tell people about the zone default option and advocate for the eventual distance based fare system. I love this card - it's a lot less hassle than making sure I've always got enough money in my pocket, and a lot quicker than working to get it into the money box.
Comment by Dick Burkhart
7 months ago
( 0 votes)
When adding 'value' to this card....
the one thing that I have against this card, is when I add value online, I was told that it takes time for all transportation (Metro, SoundTransit, the train, etc)for to added to their database before I can ride. Yet, seems like I have to plan just to take a trip. sorry, am sticking to the monthly bus pass
Comment by CAnnie
7 months ago
( 0 votes)
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